Illegal immigration – how does Britain deal with it? The answer might sound unusual, unfair, and perhaps even a parody.
In this episode, we discuss the British government's controversial plan to deport asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to the small East African country of Rwanda.
[00:00:00] Hello, hello hello, and welcome to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:00:11] The show where you can listen to fascinating stories, and learn weird and wonderful things about the world at the same time as improving your English.
[00:00:19] I'm Alastair Budge, and today we are going to be talking about an unusual and controversial plan the British government came up with to deal with the issue of illegal immigration.
[00:00:30] It is the plan to deport asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to the small East African country of Rwanda.
[00:00:38] It might sound unusual, unfair, perhaps even a parody, a bad joke, but it is indeed a current British government policy.
[00:00:48] So, let’s not waste a minute, and ask ourselves Why Britain Is Deporting Migrants to Rwanda?
[00:00:56] On the 14th of June 2022, an aeroplane stood on the tarmac, ready to take off.
[00:01:04] It was a large plane, with enough space for hundreds of people, but there were as few as seven passengers on board.
[00:01:14] It was an expensive flight, paid for by the British government at a reported cost of £500,000, almost €600,000.
[00:01:25] The passengers on board were people that the UK government had declared had entered the country illegally.
[00:01:33] They were to be sent to Rwanda where they would be rehoused and resettled, given a new life in a country 7,000 kilometres away from the UK.
[00:01:44] None of these 7 people were from Rwanda, or anywhere near Rwanda. Rwanda was as foreign and unknown to them as it is to me, and perhaps is to you.
[00:01:57] The flight was getting ready to leave, but after hours of waiting, it was cancelled.
[00:02:04] There was a last-minute intervention from the European Court of Human Rights that the flight was illegal and violated the human rights of the passengers.
[00:02:15] The engines stopped whirring, the passengers got out and were returned to the detention centre where they had been held.
[00:02:24] It was a huge embarrassment to the British government, but British politicians insisted that this was just a temporary setback, a delay.
[00:02:35] The British government would continue with its stated and controversial policy of deporting asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to the East African nation, come hell or high water.
[00:02:47] Or perhaps more accurately, so long as the European Court of Human Rights didn’t get in the way.
[00:02:54] Now, as of the time of recording this episode, so the start of 2024, not a single person has been deported to Rwanda, but the British government is still insisting that it will happen.
[00:03:09] So, why is it doing this, what is the objective, what are the major criticisms of it, both moral and legal, and what is actually going to happen?
[00:03:20] Let’s start with the first question, why is Britain deporting people to Rwanda?
[00:03:26] Compared to some European countries, Britain has a long tradition of immigration, of people coming to the country to settle here.
[00:03:36] It might be a step too far to go all the way back to the Vikings or William the Conqueror, who was from Normandy in France, but certainly in the second half of the 20th century, with the process of decolonisation and to try to beef up its economy in the post-war years, Britain welcomed millions of people from former colonies including Jamaica, India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
[00:04:02] And then in the mid-2000s, with the expansion of the European Union, a new type of immigrant started to settle in the UK.
[00:04:11] Europeans, especially people from Eastern Europe.
[00:04:15] Poles in particular, with the population of people from Poland in the UK going from 75,000 in 2003 to 911,000 in 2016, a more than 12 times increase.
[00:04:31] And the demographic makeup of the country changed, with foreigners making up an increasing proportion of the UK population.
[00:04:40] To give you some more numbers, the percentage of the British population that was born abroad was 4.2% in 1951, rising to 8.3% in 2001, rising still to 12.7% in 2011 and 14.4% in 2022.
[00:05:02] In other words, today, something like one in every 7 people living in the UK was born abroad.
[00:05:11] Like in practically every country, in the UK immigration is a controversial topic, it is a political hot potato.
[00:05:20] There are plenty of people who think it is wonderful, who believe that immigrants add huge value to every element of Britain and British culture, and that the UK is a better place thanks to its relatively high proportion of immigrants.
[00:05:35] On the other hand, like in every country, there are those who feel that there are too many immigrants, that immigrants are hurting the British economy and eroding British culture and values.
[00:05:48] To state the obvious, it is a hot topic, arousing passionate views on both sides, and it is certainly not black and white.
[00:05:58] But in June of 2016, the British government gave its citizens the right to have their say on the issue. Not only on immigration, but on whether to stay in or leave the EU, the European Union.
[00:06:15] As you may remember, it was a highly divisive referendum, but 52% of the country voted to leave, with immigration and “taking back control” being a major motivation.
[00:06:29] In other words, leaving the EU would mean that Britain could have more control over its borders, and the number of immigrants would reduce.
[00:06:39] The reality was that this simply didn’t happen, and things have actually gone in the opposite direction.
[00:06:47] Migration to Britain has increased dramatically since Brexit, with more than a million people migrating to the country in 2022, the majority of them coming from non-EU countries.
[00:07:00] What happened is that the UK didn’t just swap immigrants from EU countries for immigrants from non-EU countries, the number of immigrants overall increased significantly.
[00:07:13] For the British Conservative government, which has been campaigning to crack down on immigration, and which pledged that Brexit would deliver this, this is something of an embarrassment and policy failure.
[00:07:27] It told the British public that it would reduce immigration, but it has increased.
[00:07:33] Now, how does this relate to Rwanda?
[00:07:36] Well, the immigration that we've been talking about so far, the vast proportion of it is legal immigration, it is people who have been given visas to work or study in the country, people who have every legal right to be here, and in many cases are paying a lot of money through university fees or taxes into the British economy.
[00:07:59] But there is a subsection of this immigrant population that did not arrive in the country this way, and instead arrived in small boats from continental Europe, or smuggled in lorries or ships.
[00:08:13] As you will know, starting in the mid-2010s, an increasing number of people have fled their countries and tried to seek a new life in Europe. Syrians, Afghans, Nigerians, Pakistanis, people from all over the world have risked their lives and left their families in the hope of a better life in Europe.
[00:08:35] Britain, as a small island nation to the north of Europe, far away from the Mediterranean, was not on the frontlines, but it has still seen an increasing number of people trying to cross over the channel, the sea between England and France, to the shores of the United Kingdom.
[00:08:54] To give you some numbers on this, in 2022 there were applications for almost 100,000 asylum seekers in Britain, up from only 18,000 in 2010.
[00:09:07] And it is these people that we are talking about today, this is the category of people that the British government has announced it wants to start deporting to the small African country of Rwanda.
[00:09:20] Now, I appreciate that it has taken us a while to get to this bit, but the context is important to understand the “why”.
[00:09:30] Legal migration to Britain is a large net positive economically for the country; the health service needs workers, and there are not enough in the UK. Nurses, doctors, hospital porters - these people come to the UK, deliver vital services, and pay taxes.
[00:09:49] Similarly, British universities make a large proportion of their money from the high fees that foreign students pay. The foreign students subsidise the cost for British students, so without these foreign students, it would cost more for people in Britain.
[00:10:07] Realistically, the government knew that reducing the tax-paying working population or the number of high-fee-paying students would harm the economy, but it needed to do something to show that it was addressing the British public’s concern with rising immigration.
[00:10:25] So, what does the British government decide to do?
[00:10:28] It aims for the most visible type of migration, the kind that is splashed all over the British tabloids and right-wing press; illegal immigration, people coming in boats or smuggled in lorries.
[00:10:42] And in April of 2022, the then British Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced that his government had formed a plan with the government of Rwanda to take people whom Britain had identified as asylum seekers or illegal immigrants. Britain would pay £120 million, so almost €150 million, to the Rwandan government to set up the scheme.
[00:11:09] It would then pay between £20,000 and £30,000 for each person successfully settled there.
[00:11:18] It might seem expensive, but the British government claimed that it was actually a good deal for the British people; keeping asylum seekers in Britain is not cheap, and so many people were seeking asylum that there was a huge backlog, there were far too many people to deal with.
[00:11:37] Paying another country to do it for them, to solve this problem, was simply good business, it made sense.
[00:11:45] What’s more, the British government said that this policy would deter potential asylum seekers from crossing the channel. If you thought that you might end up in Rwanda, a country that you had absolutely no links to, perhaps you would think twice before trying to cross over into Britain and you would remain in France or go to another European country.
[00:12:08] And there was also another supposedly humanitarian objective behind it; by deterring potential asylum seekers from attempting the crossing, it would deal an important blow to the vile business of human trafficking, the people who make money smuggling vulnerable people across Europe.
[00:12:28] And on the Rwandan side, clearly the Rwandan government needed to sell this policy to its people, but in this case, money talks; the British government paid well, and Rwanda, well, it is not a rich country and it needed the money.
[00:12:46] In fact, it wasn’t just the Rwandan government that needed to sell this policy to its people; the British government did too.
[00:12:54] It was and still is the subject of major debate. Its supporters make the same argument as the UK government; it makes economic sense, it deters future migrants, and it stops human trafficking.
[00:13:10] But to its critics, it is everything from immoral to illegal.
[00:13:16] These are people who have often fled war, persecution, and famine, in some cases wars perpetuated by the British government. Many will have left loved ones behind or lost loved ones on the journey. They have suffered enough, so the argument goes; it is inhumane to pack them on a plane and send them to a country that they have absolutely no links to.
[00:13:40] And as to the legal question, the British courts of law are divided on the issue.
[00:13:47] In December of 2022, the British high courts ruled that the plan was legal; it was an agreement between the UK and Rwanda, the individuals in question had come to the UK without the legal right to do so, and there was nothing illegal about sending them to a different country if that country agreed to take them, which Rwanda did.
[00:14:10] However, this decision was reversed a matter of months later, with the law courts ruling that it was in fact illegal. Rwanda is in effect a one-party state without a strong rule of law, and there was not enough evidence that these people would be treated humanely and fairly when they arrived there.
[00:14:33] The plan was illegal.
[00:14:36] And that’s before we get to the moral question, which was even more divisive.
[00:14:41] There were large protests on the day that the first plane was scheduled to leave, with human rights advocates blocking the roads, chanting “no more deportation” and “seeking asylum is not a crime”.
[00:14:54] In terms of the opinion of the British public, it is tightly divided.
[00:15:00] Shortly after it was announced, a YouGov survey reported that 42% of people disagreed with the plan, while 35% supported it.
[00:15:12] But a matter of a couple of months later, in June of 2022 and after the government had had the chance to release more statistics on the increase of illegal immigration and had had the chance to put forward its arguments, this had reversed, with 44% of people supporting it and 40% of people opposing it.
[00:15:34] So, what is actually going to happen?
[00:15:38] The plan is still being fought by human rights activists and lawyers for the people who have been told that they will be deported to Rwanda.
[00:15:46] As of the start of 2024, nobody has gone, but the government is saying that it’s only a matter of time.
[00:15:55] As the debate continues, let's finish by looking at some broader implications.
[00:16:01] This plan isn't just about immigration policy; it's also about international relations and human rights.
[00:16:08] By outsourcing its immigration responsibilities, Britain is entering uncharted territory, this is something that hasn’t been done before.
[00:16:18] As such, it raises questions about the future of international asylum norms and the responsibilities of countries towards asylum seekers.
[00:16:27] Moreover, critics argue that this policy could set a worrying precedent.
[00:16:33] If it’s successful, it might encourage other countries to adopt similar measures, potentially leading to a global shift in how we handle asylum and immigration issues.
[00:16:44] Instead of welcoming asylum seekers with open arms, countries simply pay another poorer country to take them. Yes, they might be protected from the persecution and wars they were fleeing from, but they are far from where they wanted to be, potentially irrevocably separated from their families.
[00:17:04] Supporters, however, see this as a practical solution to a complex problem, highlighting that it could bring order to an otherwise chaotic and dangerous migration process.
[00:17:15] They argue that it could reduce the number of dangerous crossings and save lives while ensuring that those in genuine need of asylum receive protection in a safe and structured environment.
[00:17:27] As of early 2024, the future of this policy is still in limbo, how it progresses is likely to be determined by legal challenges, public opinion, and in the UK’s case, an expected general election later on in the year.
[00:17:42] No matter where you stand on this issue, it's undeniable that the way we handle migration is evolving.
[00:17:50] What’s clear is that the story of Britain's plan to deport migrants to Rwanda is far from over, and its outcome could have far-reaching consequences for many years to come.
[00:18:03] OK then, that is it for today's episode on the British government’s controversial plan to deport migrants to Rwanda.
[00:18:11] I hope it's been an interesting one, and that you've learnt something new.
[00:18:14] As always, I would love to know what you thought about this episode.
[00:18:17] What do you think of this proposal? A sound idea, completely immoral, or somewhere in between?
[00:18:23] Are there similar proposals being made by the government of your country, what are they, and where do people stand on the issue?
[00:18:31] I would love to know, so let’s get this discussion started.
[00:18:34] You can head right into our community forum, which is at community.leonardoenglish.com and get chatting away to other curious minds.
[00:18:42] You've been listening to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:18:47] I'm Alastair Budge, you stay safe, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
[END OF EPISODE]
[00:00:00] Hello, hello hello, and welcome to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:00:11] The show where you can listen to fascinating stories, and learn weird and wonderful things about the world at the same time as improving your English.
[00:00:19] I'm Alastair Budge, and today we are going to be talking about an unusual and controversial plan the British government came up with to deal with the issue of illegal immigration.
[00:00:30] It is the plan to deport asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to the small East African country of Rwanda.
[00:00:38] It might sound unusual, unfair, perhaps even a parody, a bad joke, but it is indeed a current British government policy.
[00:00:48] So, let’s not waste a minute, and ask ourselves Why Britain Is Deporting Migrants to Rwanda?
[00:00:56] On the 14th of June 2022, an aeroplane stood on the tarmac, ready to take off.
[00:01:04] It was a large plane, with enough space for hundreds of people, but there were as few as seven passengers on board.
[00:01:14] It was an expensive flight, paid for by the British government at a reported cost of £500,000, almost €600,000.
[00:01:25] The passengers on board were people that the UK government had declared had entered the country illegally.
[00:01:33] They were to be sent to Rwanda where they would be rehoused and resettled, given a new life in a country 7,000 kilometres away from the UK.
[00:01:44] None of these 7 people were from Rwanda, or anywhere near Rwanda. Rwanda was as foreign and unknown to them as it is to me, and perhaps is to you.
[00:01:57] The flight was getting ready to leave, but after hours of waiting, it was cancelled.
[00:02:04] There was a last-minute intervention from the European Court of Human Rights that the flight was illegal and violated the human rights of the passengers.
[00:02:15] The engines stopped whirring, the passengers got out and were returned to the detention centre where they had been held.
[00:02:24] It was a huge embarrassment to the British government, but British politicians insisted that this was just a temporary setback, a delay.
[00:02:35] The British government would continue with its stated and controversial policy of deporting asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to the East African nation, come hell or high water.
[00:02:47] Or perhaps more accurately, so long as the European Court of Human Rights didn’t get in the way.
[00:02:54] Now, as of the time of recording this episode, so the start of 2024, not a single person has been deported to Rwanda, but the British government is still insisting that it will happen.
[00:03:09] So, why is it doing this, what is the objective, what are the major criticisms of it, both moral and legal, and what is actually going to happen?
[00:03:20] Let’s start with the first question, why is Britain deporting people to Rwanda?
[00:03:26] Compared to some European countries, Britain has a long tradition of immigration, of people coming to the country to settle here.
[00:03:36] It might be a step too far to go all the way back to the Vikings or William the Conqueror, who was from Normandy in France, but certainly in the second half of the 20th century, with the process of decolonisation and to try to beef up its economy in the post-war years, Britain welcomed millions of people from former colonies including Jamaica, India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
[00:04:02] And then in the mid-2000s, with the expansion of the European Union, a new type of immigrant started to settle in the UK.
[00:04:11] Europeans, especially people from Eastern Europe.
[00:04:15] Poles in particular, with the population of people from Poland in the UK going from 75,000 in 2003 to 911,000 in 2016, a more than 12 times increase.
[00:04:31] And the demographic makeup of the country changed, with foreigners making up an increasing proportion of the UK population.
[00:04:40] To give you some more numbers, the percentage of the British population that was born abroad was 4.2% in 1951, rising to 8.3% in 2001, rising still to 12.7% in 2011 and 14.4% in 2022.
[00:05:02] In other words, today, something like one in every 7 people living in the UK was born abroad.
[00:05:11] Like in practically every country, in the UK immigration is a controversial topic, it is a political hot potato.
[00:05:20] There are plenty of people who think it is wonderful, who believe that immigrants add huge value to every element of Britain and British culture, and that the UK is a better place thanks to its relatively high proportion of immigrants.
[00:05:35] On the other hand, like in every country, there are those who feel that there are too many immigrants, that immigrants are hurting the British economy and eroding British culture and values.
[00:05:48] To state the obvious, it is a hot topic, arousing passionate views on both sides, and it is certainly not black and white.
[00:05:58] But in June of 2016, the British government gave its citizens the right to have their say on the issue. Not only on immigration, but on whether to stay in or leave the EU, the European Union.
[00:06:15] As you may remember, it was a highly divisive referendum, but 52% of the country voted to leave, with immigration and “taking back control” being a major motivation.
[00:06:29] In other words, leaving the EU would mean that Britain could have more control over its borders, and the number of immigrants would reduce.
[00:06:39] The reality was that this simply didn’t happen, and things have actually gone in the opposite direction.
[00:06:47] Migration to Britain has increased dramatically since Brexit, with more than a million people migrating to the country in 2022, the majority of them coming from non-EU countries.
[00:07:00] What happened is that the UK didn’t just swap immigrants from EU countries for immigrants from non-EU countries, the number of immigrants overall increased significantly.
[00:07:13] For the British Conservative government, which has been campaigning to crack down on immigration, and which pledged that Brexit would deliver this, this is something of an embarrassment and policy failure.
[00:07:27] It told the British public that it would reduce immigration, but it has increased.
[00:07:33] Now, how does this relate to Rwanda?
[00:07:36] Well, the immigration that we've been talking about so far, the vast proportion of it is legal immigration, it is people who have been given visas to work or study in the country, people who have every legal right to be here, and in many cases are paying a lot of money through university fees or taxes into the British economy.
[00:07:59] But there is a subsection of this immigrant population that did not arrive in the country this way, and instead arrived in small boats from continental Europe, or smuggled in lorries or ships.
[00:08:13] As you will know, starting in the mid-2010s, an increasing number of people have fled their countries and tried to seek a new life in Europe. Syrians, Afghans, Nigerians, Pakistanis, people from all over the world have risked their lives and left their families in the hope of a better life in Europe.
[00:08:35] Britain, as a small island nation to the north of Europe, far away from the Mediterranean, was not on the frontlines, but it has still seen an increasing number of people trying to cross over the channel, the sea between England and France, to the shores of the United Kingdom.
[00:08:54] To give you some numbers on this, in 2022 there were applications for almost 100,000 asylum seekers in Britain, up from only 18,000 in 2010.
[00:09:07] And it is these people that we are talking about today, this is the category of people that the British government has announced it wants to start deporting to the small African country of Rwanda.
[00:09:20] Now, I appreciate that it has taken us a while to get to this bit, but the context is important to understand the “why”.
[00:09:30] Legal migration to Britain is a large net positive economically for the country; the health service needs workers, and there are not enough in the UK. Nurses, doctors, hospital porters - these people come to the UK, deliver vital services, and pay taxes.
[00:09:49] Similarly, British universities make a large proportion of their money from the high fees that foreign students pay. The foreign students subsidise the cost for British students, so without these foreign students, it would cost more for people in Britain.
[00:10:07] Realistically, the government knew that reducing the tax-paying working population or the number of high-fee-paying students would harm the economy, but it needed to do something to show that it was addressing the British public’s concern with rising immigration.
[00:10:25] So, what does the British government decide to do?
[00:10:28] It aims for the most visible type of migration, the kind that is splashed all over the British tabloids and right-wing press; illegal immigration, people coming in boats or smuggled in lorries.
[00:10:42] And in April of 2022, the then British Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced that his government had formed a plan with the government of Rwanda to take people whom Britain had identified as asylum seekers or illegal immigrants. Britain would pay £120 million, so almost €150 million, to the Rwandan government to set up the scheme.
[00:11:09] It would then pay between £20,000 and £30,000 for each person successfully settled there.
[00:11:18] It might seem expensive, but the British government claimed that it was actually a good deal for the British people; keeping asylum seekers in Britain is not cheap, and so many people were seeking asylum that there was a huge backlog, there were far too many people to deal with.
[00:11:37] Paying another country to do it for them, to solve this problem, was simply good business, it made sense.
[00:11:45] What’s more, the British government said that this policy would deter potential asylum seekers from crossing the channel. If you thought that you might end up in Rwanda, a country that you had absolutely no links to, perhaps you would think twice before trying to cross over into Britain and you would remain in France or go to another European country.
[00:12:08] And there was also another supposedly humanitarian objective behind it; by deterring potential asylum seekers from attempting the crossing, it would deal an important blow to the vile business of human trafficking, the people who make money smuggling vulnerable people across Europe.
[00:12:28] And on the Rwandan side, clearly the Rwandan government needed to sell this policy to its people, but in this case, money talks; the British government paid well, and Rwanda, well, it is not a rich country and it needed the money.
[00:12:46] In fact, it wasn’t just the Rwandan government that needed to sell this policy to its people; the British government did too.
[00:12:54] It was and still is the subject of major debate. Its supporters make the same argument as the UK government; it makes economic sense, it deters future migrants, and it stops human trafficking.
[00:13:10] But to its critics, it is everything from immoral to illegal.
[00:13:16] These are people who have often fled war, persecution, and famine, in some cases wars perpetuated by the British government. Many will have left loved ones behind or lost loved ones on the journey. They have suffered enough, so the argument goes; it is inhumane to pack them on a plane and send them to a country that they have absolutely no links to.
[00:13:40] And as to the legal question, the British courts of law are divided on the issue.
[00:13:47] In December of 2022, the British high courts ruled that the plan was legal; it was an agreement between the UK and Rwanda, the individuals in question had come to the UK without the legal right to do so, and there was nothing illegal about sending them to a different country if that country agreed to take them, which Rwanda did.
[00:14:10] However, this decision was reversed a matter of months later, with the law courts ruling that it was in fact illegal. Rwanda is in effect a one-party state without a strong rule of law, and there was not enough evidence that these people would be treated humanely and fairly when they arrived there.
[00:14:33] The plan was illegal.
[00:14:36] And that’s before we get to the moral question, which was even more divisive.
[00:14:41] There were large protests on the day that the first plane was scheduled to leave, with human rights advocates blocking the roads, chanting “no more deportation” and “seeking asylum is not a crime”.
[00:14:54] In terms of the opinion of the British public, it is tightly divided.
[00:15:00] Shortly after it was announced, a YouGov survey reported that 42% of people disagreed with the plan, while 35% supported it.
[00:15:12] But a matter of a couple of months later, in June of 2022 and after the government had had the chance to release more statistics on the increase of illegal immigration and had had the chance to put forward its arguments, this had reversed, with 44% of people supporting it and 40% of people opposing it.
[00:15:34] So, what is actually going to happen?
[00:15:38] The plan is still being fought by human rights activists and lawyers for the people who have been told that they will be deported to Rwanda.
[00:15:46] As of the start of 2024, nobody has gone, but the government is saying that it’s only a matter of time.
[00:15:55] As the debate continues, let's finish by looking at some broader implications.
[00:16:01] This plan isn't just about immigration policy; it's also about international relations and human rights.
[00:16:08] By outsourcing its immigration responsibilities, Britain is entering uncharted territory, this is something that hasn’t been done before.
[00:16:18] As such, it raises questions about the future of international asylum norms and the responsibilities of countries towards asylum seekers.
[00:16:27] Moreover, critics argue that this policy could set a worrying precedent.
[00:16:33] If it’s successful, it might encourage other countries to adopt similar measures, potentially leading to a global shift in how we handle asylum and immigration issues.
[00:16:44] Instead of welcoming asylum seekers with open arms, countries simply pay another poorer country to take them. Yes, they might be protected from the persecution and wars they were fleeing from, but they are far from where they wanted to be, potentially irrevocably separated from their families.
[00:17:04] Supporters, however, see this as a practical solution to a complex problem, highlighting that it could bring order to an otherwise chaotic and dangerous migration process.
[00:17:15] They argue that it could reduce the number of dangerous crossings and save lives while ensuring that those in genuine need of asylum receive protection in a safe and structured environment.
[00:17:27] As of early 2024, the future of this policy is still in limbo, how it progresses is likely to be determined by legal challenges, public opinion, and in the UK’s case, an expected general election later on in the year.
[00:17:42] No matter where you stand on this issue, it's undeniable that the way we handle migration is evolving.
[00:17:50] What’s clear is that the story of Britain's plan to deport migrants to Rwanda is far from over, and its outcome could have far-reaching consequences for many years to come.
[00:18:03] OK then, that is it for today's episode on the British government’s controversial plan to deport migrants to Rwanda.
[00:18:11] I hope it's been an interesting one, and that you've learnt something new.
[00:18:14] As always, I would love to know what you thought about this episode.
[00:18:17] What do you think of this proposal? A sound idea, completely immoral, or somewhere in between?
[00:18:23] Are there similar proposals being made by the government of your country, what are they, and where do people stand on the issue?
[00:18:31] I would love to know, so let’s get this discussion started.
[00:18:34] You can head right into our community forum, which is at community.leonardoenglish.com and get chatting away to other curious minds.
[00:18:42] You've been listening to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:18:47] I'm Alastair Budge, you stay safe, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
[END OF EPISODE]
[00:00:00] Hello, hello hello, and welcome to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:00:11] The show where you can listen to fascinating stories, and learn weird and wonderful things about the world at the same time as improving your English.
[00:00:19] I'm Alastair Budge, and today we are going to be talking about an unusual and controversial plan the British government came up with to deal with the issue of illegal immigration.
[00:00:30] It is the plan to deport asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to the small East African country of Rwanda.
[00:00:38] It might sound unusual, unfair, perhaps even a parody, a bad joke, but it is indeed a current British government policy.
[00:00:48] So, let’s not waste a minute, and ask ourselves Why Britain Is Deporting Migrants to Rwanda?
[00:00:56] On the 14th of June 2022, an aeroplane stood on the tarmac, ready to take off.
[00:01:04] It was a large plane, with enough space for hundreds of people, but there were as few as seven passengers on board.
[00:01:14] It was an expensive flight, paid for by the British government at a reported cost of £500,000, almost €600,000.
[00:01:25] The passengers on board were people that the UK government had declared had entered the country illegally.
[00:01:33] They were to be sent to Rwanda where they would be rehoused and resettled, given a new life in a country 7,000 kilometres away from the UK.
[00:01:44] None of these 7 people were from Rwanda, or anywhere near Rwanda. Rwanda was as foreign and unknown to them as it is to me, and perhaps is to you.
[00:01:57] The flight was getting ready to leave, but after hours of waiting, it was cancelled.
[00:02:04] There was a last-minute intervention from the European Court of Human Rights that the flight was illegal and violated the human rights of the passengers.
[00:02:15] The engines stopped whirring, the passengers got out and were returned to the detention centre where they had been held.
[00:02:24] It was a huge embarrassment to the British government, but British politicians insisted that this was just a temporary setback, a delay.
[00:02:35] The British government would continue with its stated and controversial policy of deporting asylum seekers and illegal immigrants to the East African nation, come hell or high water.
[00:02:47] Or perhaps more accurately, so long as the European Court of Human Rights didn’t get in the way.
[00:02:54] Now, as of the time of recording this episode, so the start of 2024, not a single person has been deported to Rwanda, but the British government is still insisting that it will happen.
[00:03:09] So, why is it doing this, what is the objective, what are the major criticisms of it, both moral and legal, and what is actually going to happen?
[00:03:20] Let’s start with the first question, why is Britain deporting people to Rwanda?
[00:03:26] Compared to some European countries, Britain has a long tradition of immigration, of people coming to the country to settle here.
[00:03:36] It might be a step too far to go all the way back to the Vikings or William the Conqueror, who was from Normandy in France, but certainly in the second half of the 20th century, with the process of decolonisation and to try to beef up its economy in the post-war years, Britain welcomed millions of people from former colonies including Jamaica, India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.
[00:04:02] And then in the mid-2000s, with the expansion of the European Union, a new type of immigrant started to settle in the UK.
[00:04:11] Europeans, especially people from Eastern Europe.
[00:04:15] Poles in particular, with the population of people from Poland in the UK going from 75,000 in 2003 to 911,000 in 2016, a more than 12 times increase.
[00:04:31] And the demographic makeup of the country changed, with foreigners making up an increasing proportion of the UK population.
[00:04:40] To give you some more numbers, the percentage of the British population that was born abroad was 4.2% in 1951, rising to 8.3% in 2001, rising still to 12.7% in 2011 and 14.4% in 2022.
[00:05:02] In other words, today, something like one in every 7 people living in the UK was born abroad.
[00:05:11] Like in practically every country, in the UK immigration is a controversial topic, it is a political hot potato.
[00:05:20] There are plenty of people who think it is wonderful, who believe that immigrants add huge value to every element of Britain and British culture, and that the UK is a better place thanks to its relatively high proportion of immigrants.
[00:05:35] On the other hand, like in every country, there are those who feel that there are too many immigrants, that immigrants are hurting the British economy and eroding British culture and values.
[00:05:48] To state the obvious, it is a hot topic, arousing passionate views on both sides, and it is certainly not black and white.
[00:05:58] But in June of 2016, the British government gave its citizens the right to have their say on the issue. Not only on immigration, but on whether to stay in or leave the EU, the European Union.
[00:06:15] As you may remember, it was a highly divisive referendum, but 52% of the country voted to leave, with immigration and “taking back control” being a major motivation.
[00:06:29] In other words, leaving the EU would mean that Britain could have more control over its borders, and the number of immigrants would reduce.
[00:06:39] The reality was that this simply didn’t happen, and things have actually gone in the opposite direction.
[00:06:47] Migration to Britain has increased dramatically since Brexit, with more than a million people migrating to the country in 2022, the majority of them coming from non-EU countries.
[00:07:00] What happened is that the UK didn’t just swap immigrants from EU countries for immigrants from non-EU countries, the number of immigrants overall increased significantly.
[00:07:13] For the British Conservative government, which has been campaigning to crack down on immigration, and which pledged that Brexit would deliver this, this is something of an embarrassment and policy failure.
[00:07:27] It told the British public that it would reduce immigration, but it has increased.
[00:07:33] Now, how does this relate to Rwanda?
[00:07:36] Well, the immigration that we've been talking about so far, the vast proportion of it is legal immigration, it is people who have been given visas to work or study in the country, people who have every legal right to be here, and in many cases are paying a lot of money through university fees or taxes into the British economy.
[00:07:59] But there is a subsection of this immigrant population that did not arrive in the country this way, and instead arrived in small boats from continental Europe, or smuggled in lorries or ships.
[00:08:13] As you will know, starting in the mid-2010s, an increasing number of people have fled their countries and tried to seek a new life in Europe. Syrians, Afghans, Nigerians, Pakistanis, people from all over the world have risked their lives and left their families in the hope of a better life in Europe.
[00:08:35] Britain, as a small island nation to the north of Europe, far away from the Mediterranean, was not on the frontlines, but it has still seen an increasing number of people trying to cross over the channel, the sea between England and France, to the shores of the United Kingdom.
[00:08:54] To give you some numbers on this, in 2022 there were applications for almost 100,000 asylum seekers in Britain, up from only 18,000 in 2010.
[00:09:07] And it is these people that we are talking about today, this is the category of people that the British government has announced it wants to start deporting to the small African country of Rwanda.
[00:09:20] Now, I appreciate that it has taken us a while to get to this bit, but the context is important to understand the “why”.
[00:09:30] Legal migration to Britain is a large net positive economically for the country; the health service needs workers, and there are not enough in the UK. Nurses, doctors, hospital porters - these people come to the UK, deliver vital services, and pay taxes.
[00:09:49] Similarly, British universities make a large proportion of their money from the high fees that foreign students pay. The foreign students subsidise the cost for British students, so without these foreign students, it would cost more for people in Britain.
[00:10:07] Realistically, the government knew that reducing the tax-paying working population or the number of high-fee-paying students would harm the economy, but it needed to do something to show that it was addressing the British public’s concern with rising immigration.
[00:10:25] So, what does the British government decide to do?
[00:10:28] It aims for the most visible type of migration, the kind that is splashed all over the British tabloids and right-wing press; illegal immigration, people coming in boats or smuggled in lorries.
[00:10:42] And in April of 2022, the then British Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced that his government had formed a plan with the government of Rwanda to take people whom Britain had identified as asylum seekers or illegal immigrants. Britain would pay £120 million, so almost €150 million, to the Rwandan government to set up the scheme.
[00:11:09] It would then pay between £20,000 and £30,000 for each person successfully settled there.
[00:11:18] It might seem expensive, but the British government claimed that it was actually a good deal for the British people; keeping asylum seekers in Britain is not cheap, and so many people were seeking asylum that there was a huge backlog, there were far too many people to deal with.
[00:11:37] Paying another country to do it for them, to solve this problem, was simply good business, it made sense.
[00:11:45] What’s more, the British government said that this policy would deter potential asylum seekers from crossing the channel. If you thought that you might end up in Rwanda, a country that you had absolutely no links to, perhaps you would think twice before trying to cross over into Britain and you would remain in France or go to another European country.
[00:12:08] And there was also another supposedly humanitarian objective behind it; by deterring potential asylum seekers from attempting the crossing, it would deal an important blow to the vile business of human trafficking, the people who make money smuggling vulnerable people across Europe.
[00:12:28] And on the Rwandan side, clearly the Rwandan government needed to sell this policy to its people, but in this case, money talks; the British government paid well, and Rwanda, well, it is not a rich country and it needed the money.
[00:12:46] In fact, it wasn’t just the Rwandan government that needed to sell this policy to its people; the British government did too.
[00:12:54] It was and still is the subject of major debate. Its supporters make the same argument as the UK government; it makes economic sense, it deters future migrants, and it stops human trafficking.
[00:13:10] But to its critics, it is everything from immoral to illegal.
[00:13:16] These are people who have often fled war, persecution, and famine, in some cases wars perpetuated by the British government. Many will have left loved ones behind or lost loved ones on the journey. They have suffered enough, so the argument goes; it is inhumane to pack them on a plane and send them to a country that they have absolutely no links to.
[00:13:40] And as to the legal question, the British courts of law are divided on the issue.
[00:13:47] In December of 2022, the British high courts ruled that the plan was legal; it was an agreement between the UK and Rwanda, the individuals in question had come to the UK without the legal right to do so, and there was nothing illegal about sending them to a different country if that country agreed to take them, which Rwanda did.
[00:14:10] However, this decision was reversed a matter of months later, with the law courts ruling that it was in fact illegal. Rwanda is in effect a one-party state without a strong rule of law, and there was not enough evidence that these people would be treated humanely and fairly when they arrived there.
[00:14:33] The plan was illegal.
[00:14:36] And that’s before we get to the moral question, which was even more divisive.
[00:14:41] There were large protests on the day that the first plane was scheduled to leave, with human rights advocates blocking the roads, chanting “no more deportation” and “seeking asylum is not a crime”.
[00:14:54] In terms of the opinion of the British public, it is tightly divided.
[00:15:00] Shortly after it was announced, a YouGov survey reported that 42% of people disagreed with the plan, while 35% supported it.
[00:15:12] But a matter of a couple of months later, in June of 2022 and after the government had had the chance to release more statistics on the increase of illegal immigration and had had the chance to put forward its arguments, this had reversed, with 44% of people supporting it and 40% of people opposing it.
[00:15:34] So, what is actually going to happen?
[00:15:38] The plan is still being fought by human rights activists and lawyers for the people who have been told that they will be deported to Rwanda.
[00:15:46] As of the start of 2024, nobody has gone, but the government is saying that it’s only a matter of time.
[00:15:55] As the debate continues, let's finish by looking at some broader implications.
[00:16:01] This plan isn't just about immigration policy; it's also about international relations and human rights.
[00:16:08] By outsourcing its immigration responsibilities, Britain is entering uncharted territory, this is something that hasn’t been done before.
[00:16:18] As such, it raises questions about the future of international asylum norms and the responsibilities of countries towards asylum seekers.
[00:16:27] Moreover, critics argue that this policy could set a worrying precedent.
[00:16:33] If it’s successful, it might encourage other countries to adopt similar measures, potentially leading to a global shift in how we handle asylum and immigration issues.
[00:16:44] Instead of welcoming asylum seekers with open arms, countries simply pay another poorer country to take them. Yes, they might be protected from the persecution and wars they were fleeing from, but they are far from where they wanted to be, potentially irrevocably separated from their families.
[00:17:04] Supporters, however, see this as a practical solution to a complex problem, highlighting that it could bring order to an otherwise chaotic and dangerous migration process.
[00:17:15] They argue that it could reduce the number of dangerous crossings and save lives while ensuring that those in genuine need of asylum receive protection in a safe and structured environment.
[00:17:27] As of early 2024, the future of this policy is still in limbo, how it progresses is likely to be determined by legal challenges, public opinion, and in the UK’s case, an expected general election later on in the year.
[00:17:42] No matter where you stand on this issue, it's undeniable that the way we handle migration is evolving.
[00:17:50] What’s clear is that the story of Britain's plan to deport migrants to Rwanda is far from over, and its outcome could have far-reaching consequences for many years to come.
[00:18:03] OK then, that is it for today's episode on the British government’s controversial plan to deport migrants to Rwanda.
[00:18:11] I hope it's been an interesting one, and that you've learnt something new.
[00:18:14] As always, I would love to know what you thought about this episode.
[00:18:17] What do you think of this proposal? A sound idea, completely immoral, or somewhere in between?
[00:18:23] Are there similar proposals being made by the government of your country, what are they, and where do people stand on the issue?
[00:18:31] I would love to know, so let’s get this discussion started.
[00:18:34] You can head right into our community forum, which is at community.leonardoenglish.com and get chatting away to other curious minds.
[00:18:42] You've been listening to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:18:47] I'm Alastair Budge, you stay safe, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
[END OF EPISODE]
