Degrowth and Effective Accelerationism - two outlooks about the direction in which humanity needs to go to stay alive. But they couldn't be any more different.
In this episode, we'll be exploring these two ideas and perhaps, come to some conclusions on how to save the world.
[00:00:05] Hello, hello hello, and welcome to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:00:11] The show where you can listen to fascinating stories, and learn weird and wonderful things about the world at the same time as improving your English.
[00:00:20] I'm Alastair Budge, and today is episode number 400, so I thought we would tackle a particularly thorny, complicated topic.
[00:00:29] And that is of two very different outlooks, opinions about the direction in which humanity needs to go to stay alive.
[00:00:39] The first is degrowth, the idea that our obsession with economic growth at all costs is killing the planet and will wipe out humanity, and the only way to fix this is by accepting and embracing a slowing down, and ultimately reduction in the size of our economies.
[00:00:59] And the second is Effective Accelerationism, or e/acc as it’s known. In many ways it couldn’t be further from degrowth, and proposes that the only solution to our current situation is to intensify and accelerate efforts to drive growth forward.
[00:01:19] So, in the next twenty minutes or so we will explore these two ideas, and perhaps, just perhaps, come to some conclusions on how to save the world.
[00:01:30] OK then, Degrowth vs E/Acc and How To Save The World.
[00:01:37] A graph showing the size of the global economy over the past two thousand years is a remarkable sight.
[00:01:45] For almost all of it, there is hardly any growth at all, it is a straight, flat line.
[00:01:52] Then somewhere around 1800 you start to see it increase a little bit, then a little bit more, then a little bit more, and from 1950 onwards it becomes an almost vertical line, shooting up, reflecting an almost 100 year period of unbridled economic growth.
[00:02:14] Sure, if you zoom in you’ll see some periods with lower levels of growth, or even a reduction in size, but the trend is an overwhelmingly fast-growing global economy, with no end in sight.
[00:02:29] And if you are a fan of large sounding numbers, the global economy is now over 100 trillion dollars, a 100x increase from its size at the start of the 19th century,
[00:02:45] We, you and I, are of course beneficiaries of this in many ways. The economic growth has delivered on many counts.
[00:02:54] Statistically we will live longer, have better access to education, better opportunities for leisure, better access to medicine, we are less likely to live in poverty than our parents, grandparents and great grandparents, and indeed, any of our ancestors.
[00:03:12] Statistically speaking, the quality of life for humanity overall has never been better.
[00:03:19] But going back even 50 years, economists have asked themselves the question: how long can this economic growth continue? Is it sustainable? And what are the alternatives?
[00:03:34] In 1973, the Club of Rome and a group of MIT researchers published a report called “The Limits to Growth”, which suggested that if the global economy increased at the same rate as it had been doing, there was a real risk of environmental collapse, and with it, the death of humanity.
[00:03:58] The report looked at the earth’s ability to feed its growing population, the decreasing amount of natural resources, and the increasing pollution, and came to the conclusion that humanity would need to make drastic changes, putting limits on how society works, in order to maintain a viable equilibrium between humans and the planet.
[00:04:22] This was 50 years ago, but the report was eerily accurate in many of its predictions.
[00:04:31] Indeed, this report was cited in the opening speech at a conference this year, in 2023, in Belgium.
[00:04:40] The conference was called Beyond Growth, and it sought to, and I’m quoting directly, “challenge conventional policy-making in the European Union and to redefine societal goals across the board, in order to move away from the harmful focus on the sole economic growth – that is, the growth of GDP – as the basis of our development model.”
[00:05:04] End quote.
[00:05:06] This was no small, niche, gathering.
[00:05:10] It was held in the European Parliament in Brussels, and the person who cited that report in the opening speech of the conference was Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, essentially the boss of the EU.
[00:05:28] This idea, of degrowth, is one that has been gaining increasing momentum especially over the past 10 years or so, and the conference at the European Parliament was its largest platform to-date.
[00:05:42] So, what exactly is degrowth, what does it propose, what are some of the arguments for, and against it?
[00:05:51] Well, degrowth is a socio-economic and political concept that challenges the traditional focus on continuous economic growth as the primary goal of society.
[00:06:03] If you haven’t read much into it, you might think that it is purely about preventing environmental collapse, but it’s actually broader. The idea is that by deliberately reducing both production and consumption of almost everything, the world will be not only more environmentally sustainable, but more equal.
[00:06:26] Ultimately, it will be a better and more sustainable place for all humans, but it does require us to first slow down economic growth, and then shrink the size of our economies.
[00:06:41] Clearly, there are a lot of complexities and intricacies to this; proponents of degrowth aren’t suggesting that every country needs to start shrinking its economy today, and that both an insurance salesman in California and a farmer in subSaharan Africa need to make the same adjustments to their lifestyles.
[00:07:01] The idea is that less developed countries are given room and time to grow their economies to a certain level, while richer countries need to start now.
[00:07:13] Indeed, every country needs to switch from focussing on GDP and economic growth to focussing on sustainable living. GDP as a measure is harmful, so the idea goes, and it is time to consign it to the history books.
[00:07:31] As a quick side note, if you’d like to learn more about GDP, Gross Domestic Product and how to measure growth and prosperity, we actually have an entire episode on that, it’s episode number 98.
[00:07:44] But back to degrowth.
[00:07:47] Although this idea is gaining popularity and momentum, especially with the younger generation, no mainstream politician to date has put their name behind it and made it a cornerstone of their policy.
[00:08:01] After all, it’s a difficult message to sell to a voter.
[00:08:06] James Carville, Bill Clinton’s political strategist in the 1992 presidential election, famously quipped, “it’s the economy, stupid”, reminding his candidate that a healthy economy was the main factor in deciding who to vote for.
[00:08:22] Or, as the more recent president Donald Trump put it, “jobs, jobs, jobs”.
[00:08:28] Perfectly understandably, most people are not so keen on the idea of taking a step back, producing less, consuming less, being comfortable in a world with less.
[00:08:41] So, what's the alternative?
[00:08:44] Well, one alternative is the status quo, the current situation.
[00:08:50] We simply go on as we have been going on. After all, carbon emissions have peaked in many western countries, carbon emissions are scheduled to peak in China in around 2025, and India between 2040 and 2045.
[00:09:07] Yes, the global temperature will rise, but that is a price that needs to be paid for an improvement in global living standards, so the argument goes.
[00:09:18] Clearly, there is a strong counterargument to this that accepting the status quo is precisely what will cause a climate catastrophe, and like the frog that sits in the water as it heats up to boiling point, we simply don’t accept or recognise the change until it is far too late.
[00:09:37] If you have been sweltering in heat waves this summer I imagine that there might have been days where you have been thinking a similar thing.
[00:09:45] So, that’s one alternative, the status quo where we keep our fingers crossed and hope that what we’re currently doing will lead to some form of technological breakthrough that will mitigate the effects of climate change.
[00:09:59] But let me talk about another alternative to degrowth that promises to deliver similar results, it promises to save humanity and the world, but in a radically different way.
[00:10:13] This is called Effective Accelerationism, or e/acc for short.
[00:10:19] It is an offshoot, or development perhaps, of accelerationism, a theory and ideology proposed by an English philosopher called Nick Land.
[00:10:30] Effective Accelerationism, or e/acc, originates from a principle in thermodynamics, in physics, but, in practical terms, e/acc proposes that all problems facing mankind can be solved through technological development and improved capital allocation.
[00:10:51] To quote a tweet from one of the main voices behind the movement, “e/acc is anarcho-capitalism and transhumanism. It is a radical libertarianism with techno-progressive underpinnings. If you believe in e/acc you should Build past biological constraints, Build things without permission, Build a future to be proud of as Our lives are too short to waste on nonsense.”
[00:11:17] Let me explain that in practical terms, as there are four major areas e/acc focusses on.
[00:11:25] Firstly, to increase, not decrease, the amount of energy that can be used. This doesn’t mean mining more coal or burning more oil. It means, in the short term, nuclear fission, and in the long term, harnessing the power of the sun in a drastically more efficient way than current solar panels.
[00:11:49] Secondly, it means creating policies that increase, not decrease, the global population. The more people, the more opportunities for technological breakthroughs. After all, there is more than enough space on Earth, we just don’t use it efficiently.
[00:12:07] Thirdly, it means creating AGI, artificial general intelligence, allowing humans to work with AI on the world’s hardest problems. After all, humans are limited in their ability to solve problems by biological, human constraints. AI is not.
[00:12:28] And fourthly and finally, it involves developing interplanetary and interstellar transport allowing humanity to spread to other planets.
[00:12:39] These are, to state the obvious, some ambitious goals, things that would fundamentally change everything about the way we live.
[00:12:50] But, to the creators and supporters of a/acc, this, not degrowth, is the solution to the direction humanity is heading in.
[00:13:01] Where e/acc and degrowth do agree is that the current trajectory of economic growth for economic growth’s sake is unsustainable.
[00:13:10] But where they differ in extreme terms is on what to do about it.
[00:13:16] Should we press the brake pedal and then the reverse, or the accelerator?
[00:13:22] Should we press pause and take a step back into a past that we know might be not quite so comfortable? Or should we strap a rocket to the side of our car and take a bold step into the unknown?
[00:13:36] Should we constrain capitalism, adding limits and restrictions to it, or should we unleash the capital markets further than ever before?
[00:13:47] Ultimately, what do we need to do to save the world?
[00:13:52] Now, the degrowth movement is a lot larger in number and popularity than e/acc. Degrowth, as you heard, was even given a seat at the European Parliament.
[00:14:03] E/acc, on the other hand, exists in a tiny corner of the internet, but there are some increasingly prominent voices behind it.
[00:14:13] As of the time of recording this episode, Marc Andreesen, a powerful venture capitalist and the inventor of Netscape, the first web browser, and one of the cofounders of Notion, a hugely popular software company, they have both come out in support of the movement.
[00:14:31] And E/acc, compared to degrowth, takes a very different approach to growing awareness and participation.
[00:14:38] It doesn’t try to force governments and institutions to change their behaviour, it doesn’t seek permission, instead it is a grassroots movement of builders and technology creators, operating outside official channels.
[00:14:54] It agrees with degrowth in that governments and institutions have proved themselves to be incapable of solving society’s hardest problems, but where there is a divergence in what to do about it.
[00:15:08] E/acc proposes to sidestep institutions entirely. It is a permissionless movement. There is no leader, anyone can take part, the only thing you need to do is build.
[00:15:22] Degrowth, on the other hand, requires working hand in hand with these institutions and governments. It might be a movement that comes from the grassroots, but ultimately it needs the participation of governments to regulate and slow down economic growth.
[00:15:41] At the end of the day, although they seem like completely different ideologies, and no doubt people from each side have very little time to listen to the ideas of the other, the ultimate goal is, kind of similar: create a better future for all of humanity.
[00:15:59] Both are scary.
[00:16:01] We’ve never gone back before, at least, there has never been a world that has accepted a step back for a prolonged period of time. We think we know what it would be like, but what unintended consequences would come along with it?
[00:16:17] And we have never moved forward as fast, accelerated as quickly, as proponents of e/acc are suggesting. An interplanetary future, a future powered by AGI and robots, a future where we could live to 500 years old. This is the stuff of science fiction novels. What would it be like to make this a reality?
[00:16:40] These are two very different futures. And the only thing degrowth and e/acc really agree on is that radical action is needed to move away from the status quo.
[00:16:51] The only problem is that their visions of what to do next couldn't be more different.
[00:16:58] OK then, that is it for today's episode on Degrowth vs E/Acc, and How To Save The World.
[00:17:06] I hope you’ll excuse the catchy name for this episode, but it does encapsulate the big goals of these two very different ideologies.
[00:17:15] As always, I hope it's been an interesting one, and that you've learnt something new.
[00:17:19] Had you heard of degrowth before? How about E/Acc? What were your thoughts when you first heard about what these ideas involved?
[00:17:27] Optimistic, pessimistic, somewhere in between?
[00:17:31] I would love to know, so let’s get this discussion started.
[00:17:34] You can head right into our community forum, which is at community.leonardoenglish.com and get chatting away to other curious minds.
[00:17:42] You've been listening to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:17:47] I'm Alastair Budge, you stay safe, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
[END OF EPISODE]
[00:00:05] Hello, hello hello, and welcome to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:00:11] The show where you can listen to fascinating stories, and learn weird and wonderful things about the world at the same time as improving your English.
[00:00:20] I'm Alastair Budge, and today is episode number 400, so I thought we would tackle a particularly thorny, complicated topic.
[00:00:29] And that is of two very different outlooks, opinions about the direction in which humanity needs to go to stay alive.
[00:00:39] The first is degrowth, the idea that our obsession with economic growth at all costs is killing the planet and will wipe out humanity, and the only way to fix this is by accepting and embracing a slowing down, and ultimately reduction in the size of our economies.
[00:00:59] And the second is Effective Accelerationism, or e/acc as it’s known. In many ways it couldn’t be further from degrowth, and proposes that the only solution to our current situation is to intensify and accelerate efforts to drive growth forward.
[00:01:19] So, in the next twenty minutes or so we will explore these two ideas, and perhaps, just perhaps, come to some conclusions on how to save the world.
[00:01:30] OK then, Degrowth vs E/Acc and How To Save The World.
[00:01:37] A graph showing the size of the global economy over the past two thousand years is a remarkable sight.
[00:01:45] For almost all of it, there is hardly any growth at all, it is a straight, flat line.
[00:01:52] Then somewhere around 1800 you start to see it increase a little bit, then a little bit more, then a little bit more, and from 1950 onwards it becomes an almost vertical line, shooting up, reflecting an almost 100 year period of unbridled economic growth.
[00:02:14] Sure, if you zoom in you’ll see some periods with lower levels of growth, or even a reduction in size, but the trend is an overwhelmingly fast-growing global economy, with no end in sight.
[00:02:29] And if you are a fan of large sounding numbers, the global economy is now over 100 trillion dollars, a 100x increase from its size at the start of the 19th century,
[00:02:45] We, you and I, are of course beneficiaries of this in many ways. The economic growth has delivered on many counts.
[00:02:54] Statistically we will live longer, have better access to education, better opportunities for leisure, better access to medicine, we are less likely to live in poverty than our parents, grandparents and great grandparents, and indeed, any of our ancestors.
[00:03:12] Statistically speaking, the quality of life for humanity overall has never been better.
[00:03:19] But going back even 50 years, economists have asked themselves the question: how long can this economic growth continue? Is it sustainable? And what are the alternatives?
[00:03:34] In 1973, the Club of Rome and a group of MIT researchers published a report called “The Limits to Growth”, which suggested that if the global economy increased at the same rate as it had been doing, there was a real risk of environmental collapse, and with it, the death of humanity.
[00:03:58] The report looked at the earth’s ability to feed its growing population, the decreasing amount of natural resources, and the increasing pollution, and came to the conclusion that humanity would need to make drastic changes, putting limits on how society works, in order to maintain a viable equilibrium between humans and the planet.
[00:04:22] This was 50 years ago, but the report was eerily accurate in many of its predictions.
[00:04:31] Indeed, this report was cited in the opening speech at a conference this year, in 2023, in Belgium.
[00:04:40] The conference was called Beyond Growth, and it sought to, and I’m quoting directly, “challenge conventional policy-making in the European Union and to redefine societal goals across the board, in order to move away from the harmful focus on the sole economic growth – that is, the growth of GDP – as the basis of our development model.”
[00:05:04] End quote.
[00:05:06] This was no small, niche, gathering.
[00:05:10] It was held in the European Parliament in Brussels, and the person who cited that report in the opening speech of the conference was Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, essentially the boss of the EU.
[00:05:28] This idea, of degrowth, is one that has been gaining increasing momentum especially over the past 10 years or so, and the conference at the European Parliament was its largest platform to-date.
[00:05:42] So, what exactly is degrowth, what does it propose, what are some of the arguments for, and against it?
[00:05:51] Well, degrowth is a socio-economic and political concept that challenges the traditional focus on continuous economic growth as the primary goal of society.
[00:06:03] If you haven’t read much into it, you might think that it is purely about preventing environmental collapse, but it’s actually broader. The idea is that by deliberately reducing both production and consumption of almost everything, the world will be not only more environmentally sustainable, but more equal.
[00:06:26] Ultimately, it will be a better and more sustainable place for all humans, but it does require us to first slow down economic growth, and then shrink the size of our economies.
[00:06:41] Clearly, there are a lot of complexities and intricacies to this; proponents of degrowth aren’t suggesting that every country needs to start shrinking its economy today, and that both an insurance salesman in California and a farmer in subSaharan Africa need to make the same adjustments to their lifestyles.
[00:07:01] The idea is that less developed countries are given room and time to grow their economies to a certain level, while richer countries need to start now.
[00:07:13] Indeed, every country needs to switch from focussing on GDP and economic growth to focussing on sustainable living. GDP as a measure is harmful, so the idea goes, and it is time to consign it to the history books.
[00:07:31] As a quick side note, if you’d like to learn more about GDP, Gross Domestic Product and how to measure growth and prosperity, we actually have an entire episode on that, it’s episode number 98.
[00:07:44] But back to degrowth.
[00:07:47] Although this idea is gaining popularity and momentum, especially with the younger generation, no mainstream politician to date has put their name behind it and made it a cornerstone of their policy.
[00:08:01] After all, it’s a difficult message to sell to a voter.
[00:08:06] James Carville, Bill Clinton’s political strategist in the 1992 presidential election, famously quipped, “it’s the economy, stupid”, reminding his candidate that a healthy economy was the main factor in deciding who to vote for.
[00:08:22] Or, as the more recent president Donald Trump put it, “jobs, jobs, jobs”.
[00:08:28] Perfectly understandably, most people are not so keen on the idea of taking a step back, producing less, consuming less, being comfortable in a world with less.
[00:08:41] So, what's the alternative?
[00:08:44] Well, one alternative is the status quo, the current situation.
[00:08:50] We simply go on as we have been going on. After all, carbon emissions have peaked in many western countries, carbon emissions are scheduled to peak in China in around 2025, and India between 2040 and 2045.
[00:09:07] Yes, the global temperature will rise, but that is a price that needs to be paid for an improvement in global living standards, so the argument goes.
[00:09:18] Clearly, there is a strong counterargument to this that accepting the status quo is precisely what will cause a climate catastrophe, and like the frog that sits in the water as it heats up to boiling point, we simply don’t accept or recognise the change until it is far too late.
[00:09:37] If you have been sweltering in heat waves this summer I imagine that there might have been days where you have been thinking a similar thing.
[00:09:45] So, that’s one alternative, the status quo where we keep our fingers crossed and hope that what we’re currently doing will lead to some form of technological breakthrough that will mitigate the effects of climate change.
[00:09:59] But let me talk about another alternative to degrowth that promises to deliver similar results, it promises to save humanity and the world, but in a radically different way.
[00:10:13] This is called Effective Accelerationism, or e/acc for short.
[00:10:19] It is an offshoot, or development perhaps, of accelerationism, a theory and ideology proposed by an English philosopher called Nick Land.
[00:10:30] Effective Accelerationism, or e/acc, originates from a principle in thermodynamics, in physics, but, in practical terms, e/acc proposes that all problems facing mankind can be solved through technological development and improved capital allocation.
[00:10:51] To quote a tweet from one of the main voices behind the movement, “e/acc is anarcho-capitalism and transhumanism. It is a radical libertarianism with techno-progressive underpinnings. If you believe in e/acc you should Build past biological constraints, Build things without permission, Build a future to be proud of as Our lives are too short to waste on nonsense.”
[00:11:17] Let me explain that in practical terms, as there are four major areas e/acc focusses on.
[00:11:25] Firstly, to increase, not decrease, the amount of energy that can be used. This doesn’t mean mining more coal or burning more oil. It means, in the short term, nuclear fission, and in the long term, harnessing the power of the sun in a drastically more efficient way than current solar panels.
[00:11:49] Secondly, it means creating policies that increase, not decrease, the global population. The more people, the more opportunities for technological breakthroughs. After all, there is more than enough space on Earth, we just don’t use it efficiently.
[00:12:07] Thirdly, it means creating AGI, artificial general intelligence, allowing humans to work with AI on the world’s hardest problems. After all, humans are limited in their ability to solve problems by biological, human constraints. AI is not.
[00:12:28] And fourthly and finally, it involves developing interplanetary and interstellar transport allowing humanity to spread to other planets.
[00:12:39] These are, to state the obvious, some ambitious goals, things that would fundamentally change everything about the way we live.
[00:12:50] But, to the creators and supporters of a/acc, this, not degrowth, is the solution to the direction humanity is heading in.
[00:13:01] Where e/acc and degrowth do agree is that the current trajectory of economic growth for economic growth’s sake is unsustainable.
[00:13:10] But where they differ in extreme terms is on what to do about it.
[00:13:16] Should we press the brake pedal and then the reverse, or the accelerator?
[00:13:22] Should we press pause and take a step back into a past that we know might be not quite so comfortable? Or should we strap a rocket to the side of our car and take a bold step into the unknown?
[00:13:36] Should we constrain capitalism, adding limits and restrictions to it, or should we unleash the capital markets further than ever before?
[00:13:47] Ultimately, what do we need to do to save the world?
[00:13:52] Now, the degrowth movement is a lot larger in number and popularity than e/acc. Degrowth, as you heard, was even given a seat at the European Parliament.
[00:14:03] E/acc, on the other hand, exists in a tiny corner of the internet, but there are some increasingly prominent voices behind it.
[00:14:13] As of the time of recording this episode, Marc Andreesen, a powerful venture capitalist and the inventor of Netscape, the first web browser, and one of the cofounders of Notion, a hugely popular software company, they have both come out in support of the movement.
[00:14:31] And E/acc, compared to degrowth, takes a very different approach to growing awareness and participation.
[00:14:38] It doesn’t try to force governments and institutions to change their behaviour, it doesn’t seek permission, instead it is a grassroots movement of builders and technology creators, operating outside official channels.
[00:14:54] It agrees with degrowth in that governments and institutions have proved themselves to be incapable of solving society’s hardest problems, but where there is a divergence in what to do about it.
[00:15:08] E/acc proposes to sidestep institutions entirely. It is a permissionless movement. There is no leader, anyone can take part, the only thing you need to do is build.
[00:15:22] Degrowth, on the other hand, requires working hand in hand with these institutions and governments. It might be a movement that comes from the grassroots, but ultimately it needs the participation of governments to regulate and slow down economic growth.
[00:15:41] At the end of the day, although they seem like completely different ideologies, and no doubt people from each side have very little time to listen to the ideas of the other, the ultimate goal is, kind of similar: create a better future for all of humanity.
[00:15:59] Both are scary.
[00:16:01] We’ve never gone back before, at least, there has never been a world that has accepted a step back for a prolonged period of time. We think we know what it would be like, but what unintended consequences would come along with it?
[00:16:17] And we have never moved forward as fast, accelerated as quickly, as proponents of e/acc are suggesting. An interplanetary future, a future powered by AGI and robots, a future where we could live to 500 years old. This is the stuff of science fiction novels. What would it be like to make this a reality?
[00:16:40] These are two very different futures. And the only thing degrowth and e/acc really agree on is that radical action is needed to move away from the status quo.
[00:16:51] The only problem is that their visions of what to do next couldn't be more different.
[00:16:58] OK then, that is it for today's episode on Degrowth vs E/Acc, and How To Save The World.
[00:17:06] I hope you’ll excuse the catchy name for this episode, but it does encapsulate the big goals of these two very different ideologies.
[00:17:15] As always, I hope it's been an interesting one, and that you've learnt something new.
[00:17:19] Had you heard of degrowth before? How about E/Acc? What were your thoughts when you first heard about what these ideas involved?
[00:17:27] Optimistic, pessimistic, somewhere in between?
[00:17:31] I would love to know, so let’s get this discussion started.
[00:17:34] You can head right into our community forum, which is at community.leonardoenglish.com and get chatting away to other curious minds.
[00:17:42] You've been listening to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:17:47] I'm Alastair Budge, you stay safe, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
[END OF EPISODE]
[00:00:05] Hello, hello hello, and welcome to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:00:11] The show where you can listen to fascinating stories, and learn weird and wonderful things about the world at the same time as improving your English.
[00:00:20] I'm Alastair Budge, and today is episode number 400, so I thought we would tackle a particularly thorny, complicated topic.
[00:00:29] And that is of two very different outlooks, opinions about the direction in which humanity needs to go to stay alive.
[00:00:39] The first is degrowth, the idea that our obsession with economic growth at all costs is killing the planet and will wipe out humanity, and the only way to fix this is by accepting and embracing a slowing down, and ultimately reduction in the size of our economies.
[00:00:59] And the second is Effective Accelerationism, or e/acc as it’s known. In many ways it couldn’t be further from degrowth, and proposes that the only solution to our current situation is to intensify and accelerate efforts to drive growth forward.
[00:01:19] So, in the next twenty minutes or so we will explore these two ideas, and perhaps, just perhaps, come to some conclusions on how to save the world.
[00:01:30] OK then, Degrowth vs E/Acc and How To Save The World.
[00:01:37] A graph showing the size of the global economy over the past two thousand years is a remarkable sight.
[00:01:45] For almost all of it, there is hardly any growth at all, it is a straight, flat line.
[00:01:52] Then somewhere around 1800 you start to see it increase a little bit, then a little bit more, then a little bit more, and from 1950 onwards it becomes an almost vertical line, shooting up, reflecting an almost 100 year period of unbridled economic growth.
[00:02:14] Sure, if you zoom in you’ll see some periods with lower levels of growth, or even a reduction in size, but the trend is an overwhelmingly fast-growing global economy, with no end in sight.
[00:02:29] And if you are a fan of large sounding numbers, the global economy is now over 100 trillion dollars, a 100x increase from its size at the start of the 19th century,
[00:02:45] We, you and I, are of course beneficiaries of this in many ways. The economic growth has delivered on many counts.
[00:02:54] Statistically we will live longer, have better access to education, better opportunities for leisure, better access to medicine, we are less likely to live in poverty than our parents, grandparents and great grandparents, and indeed, any of our ancestors.
[00:03:12] Statistically speaking, the quality of life for humanity overall has never been better.
[00:03:19] But going back even 50 years, economists have asked themselves the question: how long can this economic growth continue? Is it sustainable? And what are the alternatives?
[00:03:34] In 1973, the Club of Rome and a group of MIT researchers published a report called “The Limits to Growth”, which suggested that if the global economy increased at the same rate as it had been doing, there was a real risk of environmental collapse, and with it, the death of humanity.
[00:03:58] The report looked at the earth’s ability to feed its growing population, the decreasing amount of natural resources, and the increasing pollution, and came to the conclusion that humanity would need to make drastic changes, putting limits on how society works, in order to maintain a viable equilibrium between humans and the planet.
[00:04:22] This was 50 years ago, but the report was eerily accurate in many of its predictions.
[00:04:31] Indeed, this report was cited in the opening speech at a conference this year, in 2023, in Belgium.
[00:04:40] The conference was called Beyond Growth, and it sought to, and I’m quoting directly, “challenge conventional policy-making in the European Union and to redefine societal goals across the board, in order to move away from the harmful focus on the sole economic growth – that is, the growth of GDP – as the basis of our development model.”
[00:05:04] End quote.
[00:05:06] This was no small, niche, gathering.
[00:05:10] It was held in the European Parliament in Brussels, and the person who cited that report in the opening speech of the conference was Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, essentially the boss of the EU.
[00:05:28] This idea, of degrowth, is one that has been gaining increasing momentum especially over the past 10 years or so, and the conference at the European Parliament was its largest platform to-date.
[00:05:42] So, what exactly is degrowth, what does it propose, what are some of the arguments for, and against it?
[00:05:51] Well, degrowth is a socio-economic and political concept that challenges the traditional focus on continuous economic growth as the primary goal of society.
[00:06:03] If you haven’t read much into it, you might think that it is purely about preventing environmental collapse, but it’s actually broader. The idea is that by deliberately reducing both production and consumption of almost everything, the world will be not only more environmentally sustainable, but more equal.
[00:06:26] Ultimately, it will be a better and more sustainable place for all humans, but it does require us to first slow down economic growth, and then shrink the size of our economies.
[00:06:41] Clearly, there are a lot of complexities and intricacies to this; proponents of degrowth aren’t suggesting that every country needs to start shrinking its economy today, and that both an insurance salesman in California and a farmer in subSaharan Africa need to make the same adjustments to their lifestyles.
[00:07:01] The idea is that less developed countries are given room and time to grow their economies to a certain level, while richer countries need to start now.
[00:07:13] Indeed, every country needs to switch from focussing on GDP and economic growth to focussing on sustainable living. GDP as a measure is harmful, so the idea goes, and it is time to consign it to the history books.
[00:07:31] As a quick side note, if you’d like to learn more about GDP, Gross Domestic Product and how to measure growth and prosperity, we actually have an entire episode on that, it’s episode number 98.
[00:07:44] But back to degrowth.
[00:07:47] Although this idea is gaining popularity and momentum, especially with the younger generation, no mainstream politician to date has put their name behind it and made it a cornerstone of their policy.
[00:08:01] After all, it’s a difficult message to sell to a voter.
[00:08:06] James Carville, Bill Clinton’s political strategist in the 1992 presidential election, famously quipped, “it’s the economy, stupid”, reminding his candidate that a healthy economy was the main factor in deciding who to vote for.
[00:08:22] Or, as the more recent president Donald Trump put it, “jobs, jobs, jobs”.
[00:08:28] Perfectly understandably, most people are not so keen on the idea of taking a step back, producing less, consuming less, being comfortable in a world with less.
[00:08:41] So, what's the alternative?
[00:08:44] Well, one alternative is the status quo, the current situation.
[00:08:50] We simply go on as we have been going on. After all, carbon emissions have peaked in many western countries, carbon emissions are scheduled to peak in China in around 2025, and India between 2040 and 2045.
[00:09:07] Yes, the global temperature will rise, but that is a price that needs to be paid for an improvement in global living standards, so the argument goes.
[00:09:18] Clearly, there is a strong counterargument to this that accepting the status quo is precisely what will cause a climate catastrophe, and like the frog that sits in the water as it heats up to boiling point, we simply don’t accept or recognise the change until it is far too late.
[00:09:37] If you have been sweltering in heat waves this summer I imagine that there might have been days where you have been thinking a similar thing.
[00:09:45] So, that’s one alternative, the status quo where we keep our fingers crossed and hope that what we’re currently doing will lead to some form of technological breakthrough that will mitigate the effects of climate change.
[00:09:59] But let me talk about another alternative to degrowth that promises to deliver similar results, it promises to save humanity and the world, but in a radically different way.
[00:10:13] This is called Effective Accelerationism, or e/acc for short.
[00:10:19] It is an offshoot, or development perhaps, of accelerationism, a theory and ideology proposed by an English philosopher called Nick Land.
[00:10:30] Effective Accelerationism, or e/acc, originates from a principle in thermodynamics, in physics, but, in practical terms, e/acc proposes that all problems facing mankind can be solved through technological development and improved capital allocation.
[00:10:51] To quote a tweet from one of the main voices behind the movement, “e/acc is anarcho-capitalism and transhumanism. It is a radical libertarianism with techno-progressive underpinnings. If you believe in e/acc you should Build past biological constraints, Build things without permission, Build a future to be proud of as Our lives are too short to waste on nonsense.”
[00:11:17] Let me explain that in practical terms, as there are four major areas e/acc focusses on.
[00:11:25] Firstly, to increase, not decrease, the amount of energy that can be used. This doesn’t mean mining more coal or burning more oil. It means, in the short term, nuclear fission, and in the long term, harnessing the power of the sun in a drastically more efficient way than current solar panels.
[00:11:49] Secondly, it means creating policies that increase, not decrease, the global population. The more people, the more opportunities for technological breakthroughs. After all, there is more than enough space on Earth, we just don’t use it efficiently.
[00:12:07] Thirdly, it means creating AGI, artificial general intelligence, allowing humans to work with AI on the world’s hardest problems. After all, humans are limited in their ability to solve problems by biological, human constraints. AI is not.
[00:12:28] And fourthly and finally, it involves developing interplanetary and interstellar transport allowing humanity to spread to other planets.
[00:12:39] These are, to state the obvious, some ambitious goals, things that would fundamentally change everything about the way we live.
[00:12:50] But, to the creators and supporters of a/acc, this, not degrowth, is the solution to the direction humanity is heading in.
[00:13:01] Where e/acc and degrowth do agree is that the current trajectory of economic growth for economic growth’s sake is unsustainable.
[00:13:10] But where they differ in extreme terms is on what to do about it.
[00:13:16] Should we press the brake pedal and then the reverse, or the accelerator?
[00:13:22] Should we press pause and take a step back into a past that we know might be not quite so comfortable? Or should we strap a rocket to the side of our car and take a bold step into the unknown?
[00:13:36] Should we constrain capitalism, adding limits and restrictions to it, or should we unleash the capital markets further than ever before?
[00:13:47] Ultimately, what do we need to do to save the world?
[00:13:52] Now, the degrowth movement is a lot larger in number and popularity than e/acc. Degrowth, as you heard, was even given a seat at the European Parliament.
[00:14:03] E/acc, on the other hand, exists in a tiny corner of the internet, but there are some increasingly prominent voices behind it.
[00:14:13] As of the time of recording this episode, Marc Andreesen, a powerful venture capitalist and the inventor of Netscape, the first web browser, and one of the cofounders of Notion, a hugely popular software company, they have both come out in support of the movement.
[00:14:31] And E/acc, compared to degrowth, takes a very different approach to growing awareness and participation.
[00:14:38] It doesn’t try to force governments and institutions to change their behaviour, it doesn’t seek permission, instead it is a grassroots movement of builders and technology creators, operating outside official channels.
[00:14:54] It agrees with degrowth in that governments and institutions have proved themselves to be incapable of solving society’s hardest problems, but where there is a divergence in what to do about it.
[00:15:08] E/acc proposes to sidestep institutions entirely. It is a permissionless movement. There is no leader, anyone can take part, the only thing you need to do is build.
[00:15:22] Degrowth, on the other hand, requires working hand in hand with these institutions and governments. It might be a movement that comes from the grassroots, but ultimately it needs the participation of governments to regulate and slow down economic growth.
[00:15:41] At the end of the day, although they seem like completely different ideologies, and no doubt people from each side have very little time to listen to the ideas of the other, the ultimate goal is, kind of similar: create a better future for all of humanity.
[00:15:59] Both are scary.
[00:16:01] We’ve never gone back before, at least, there has never been a world that has accepted a step back for a prolonged period of time. We think we know what it would be like, but what unintended consequences would come along with it?
[00:16:17] And we have never moved forward as fast, accelerated as quickly, as proponents of e/acc are suggesting. An interplanetary future, a future powered by AGI and robots, a future where we could live to 500 years old. This is the stuff of science fiction novels. What would it be like to make this a reality?
[00:16:40] These are two very different futures. And the only thing degrowth and e/acc really agree on is that radical action is needed to move away from the status quo.
[00:16:51] The only problem is that their visions of what to do next couldn't be more different.
[00:16:58] OK then, that is it for today's episode on Degrowth vs E/Acc, and How To Save The World.
[00:17:06] I hope you’ll excuse the catchy name for this episode, but it does encapsulate the big goals of these two very different ideologies.
[00:17:15] As always, I hope it's been an interesting one, and that you've learnt something new.
[00:17:19] Had you heard of degrowth before? How about E/Acc? What were your thoughts when you first heard about what these ideas involved?
[00:17:27] Optimistic, pessimistic, somewhere in between?
[00:17:31] I would love to know, so let’s get this discussion started.
[00:17:34] You can head right into our community forum, which is at community.leonardoenglish.com and get chatting away to other curious minds.
[00:17:42] You've been listening to English Learning for Curious Minds, by Leonardo English.
[00:17:47] I'm Alastair Budge, you stay safe, and I'll catch you in the next episode.
[END OF EPISODE]
